In Miami there will always be a but, I remember back in 1993 when they said that the stadium was for football and it was very far away. They have had one of the most modern and comfortable stadiums in MLB and in Down Town for a while. They always have an excuse in Miami. I have been clear for a long time, Miami does not deserve an MLB team.
Consistent winning and a commitment to the future imo. Sign guys like Arraez and Jazz to longer term deals like the Braves are doing. Show me that you’re going to have a core that I can commit to for years to come. Also, Miami has always been a front running town. They make the playoffs and you’ll have a hard time finding a seat.
True, the fans will come out of the woodworks once the playoffs begin. But, it is amazing to realize that there has never been a meaningful MLB regular season or playoff game played at Marlins Park. We have only have had International baseball games where the stands are full. It will amazing to hear how cacophonous the sound will be of full house as it rumbles around in that dome.
First off, the stadium is wonderful and is a very fun place to watch a game in. Having said that, there are still several factors that hurt attendance. I always thought an important drawback is the lack of a tri-rail spur to the stadium. I know Briteline takes you from their station by bus but that is quite costly. There is also no atmosphere around the stadium area, no bars, restaurants or other places of interest to visit. And third, and probably most negatively impactful, is our franchises history of perennial haplessness despite two World Series rings. We have stunk most years and fans know and understand that to really compete with the deep pocket teams will take an owner who will really take a chance on high payroll, not unlike San Diego is doing now (with lttle to show for it). The fans are smart and realize that baseball is the only uncapped major sport and that teams with low payroll cannot realistically compete, especially now when the deep pocket teams spend even more extravagantly and still use Moneyball tactics too. So, we may have a shot at the playoffs this year, but that will usually not take a low payroll team much past the first round.
Despite those good reasons, baseball still should draw better here. Even during the years we won it all, crowds were sparse into August (but, in fairness, boh teams were wildcard entrants, not juggernauts).
The only hope for this area attendance wise, is sustained success, not unlike the Dolphins, Heat, and now the Panthers are having. You have to earn this areas respect as there seems to be a higher requirement for winning than other places.
An asterisk worthy playoff appearance in the covid year doesn't prove much, nor does semi-large commitments to Garcia and Soler. I like what Ng is doing after ridding ourselves of the ineffective Jeter. De la Cruz has stepped up, Arraez is a rare Tony Gwinn, Wade Boggs level talent, and now Soler is crushing. The pitching, both starting and relief, is solid. We need a catcher and probaby another infielder. The time is right to upgrade this team at the deadline.
And, if we are a winner for a couple years, and still have attendance woes, then maybe we dont deserve a team.
I second the LD ballpark experience. I have a great time when I drive down from Jacksonville. The place is comfortable and clean with pleasant sight lines and excellent food. I have been a baseball season ticket holder in two cities - if I lived in Miami, I would be again.
This year, I am unable to attend due to medical issues but in the past have been supportive. While popular with some, I found the new stadium too far away for weeknight games and traffic to be horrendous.
I have always managed to find players I really liked but wish the ownerships had come through more often with their promises of better players.
I think what was really difficult for me was watching Jeter and company come in and remove many mainstay personnel, broadcasters and player personnel while remaining distant from fans. Just some random thoughts
It’s about the ownership for me. I can’t support this guy. I had high hopes when the team was sold, but it seems like Sherman can’t get out of his own way. Every thing he touches seems to go wrong. He never should have put Jeter in charge and done the fire sale. Rich Waltz and you should still be on my television and radio. I take my kids to a couple of games a year. The ballpark food is mediocre and way too expensive. There’s no atmosphere because the stadium is empty. It just isn’t fun. When I get home I ask myself why we even bother.
I’ve relocated away from Miami. I’ve lived in Arizona and currently live in DC. I’ve attended many D-Back games and currently go to a lot of Nationals games. I’ve gotten a lot of prospective and developed theories as to why we have problem that we have.
1. Location/What’s Surrounding the Ballpark.
Marlins Park or loanDepot park is for all intense purposes, to be blunt and no matter how uncomfortable it may be to say out loud… in the Cuban “Hood”. There is nothing to do around the ballpark. It’s extremely boring and unappealing. There’s no cool bars to hangout for happy hour/to kill time before the game starts, no place to eat outside of a Wendy’s, and it’s an area that gets congested where taking public transportation would be easier but it lacks that too.
2. It’s too far from Broward and the Palm Beach Counties.
A 6:40 pm start time? Really? Does anyone realistically think someone that gets out of work can get to the park on time? Especially with how the Palmetto and i95 get during rush hour? There’s a huge fan base in those counties. They feel forgotten or isolated because they’re not latin. With how this organization has marketed itself, with the latin bands (latin percussions and trumpets) and how loud the park is, it’s a turn off to those fans. No one else does that. Only we do.
3. The lack of winning.
You know it, I know it, the empty seats know it. We have developed a horrible reputation. Whenever I have mentioned that I’m a Marlins fan, people cringe or laugh, sometimes both. And it’s not for the lack of trying. I know ownership has tried. We’ve have just had a lot of bad luck. From players not performing, to untimely passings, we’ve had bad luck all around. Tell me, what’s so fun to see your team get beat day in and day out? Year after year?
I attended an A’s and Nationals game late in 2022 on a random Tuesday night. That park was PACKED. Nose bleeds were packed. I was shocked. Both teams were dead last in their respective standings and yet it was packed. This blew my mind. Then it dawned on me. It’s the people, the fans, the culture surrounding the ballpark. Miami lacks that. It may be a tough pill to swallow but maybe it’s time to admit that baseball does not work in South Florida.
If Miami wins consistently, active buyers in the offseason (via FA/Trades) and people STILL don’t show up. Then it’s proof that baseball does not work in Miami. As painful as it may be for me to write this. It’s the reality.
I have no problem attending games no matter how bad the team is playing. My Dad doesn’t seem to mind the drive down from Boca to Miami on a Friday or Saturday late afternoon/early evening. The only thing that would get me to go a little more frequently is consistent winning and a closer location. It would be a lot shorter of a drive for a lot of fans if the Marlins were in Palm Beach County or near the Panthers arena.
I live part of the baseball year in Jacksonville and drive down to Miami twice a year for games. I was a baseball season ticket holder in two different cities and would be again with the Marlins if I lived there. For me, it's just distance, so I am not much help with locals' concerns vis-a-vis the location. My experiences with the stadium have all been good. I like the stadium, the food, the comfort level, the sight lines, the concourses, etc. As long as I am healthy, I will continue to have my road trips to Miami.
As an aside, people love to disrespect Montreal. However, knowledgeable people understand the many reasons for the long slide. The Expos outdrew the Yankees during the 1970s. We know the Yanks were not good and played at Shea, etc., but it is also unfair not to consider the attendance facts. There was also a long, successful minor league history there.
One would think that Miami can and will reach a reasonable attendance over time given the community size and the large groups living in the area that are from baseball countries.
•it is a matter of winning more. if the marlins can put a consistent winning team together throughout the season (well into august & september), then fans will go. marlins have a knack of going on slow streaks, and a few good series won’t convince fans.
•absolutely. they should resign there best players and build their farm system. no more fire sales.
•in my opinion, no. i love where the ballpark is located. heart of little havana. traffic is nauseating, however, and the constant construction around the area doesn’t help. there is also ZERO presence of marlins murals, posters, flags, in little havana. it doesn’t feel like a baseball town. think of yawkey way in boston.
•parking is a headache. they never fixed that issue. the food is also not that good. service is even worse, but that’s expected in miami.
•no
•no and no. more events outside the stadium before and after games would be nice
Honestly, it is a few things. The commute being one of them. My hope is that once the Brightline is fully functioning, then I’ll be able to attend more games. If you think about other major market teams (New York, Atlanta, Chicago, etc) you have other ways other than car to make it to the games.
Showing commitment to the future or to players. I know it’s a business, I fully understand that, but how can you get fans excited about a player(s) if there isn’t an anchor. I’ve been a fan since the beginning and going through the fire sales really hurt. As soon as you get attached to a player, they were gone. I mean look at ‘98 and ‘04, almost completely different teams when compared to the championship teams. You can also see what happened when the new ownership wanted to start fresh with trading Stanton, Yelich, etc. My hope is now they are committed to Sandy, Jazz and everyone else they just acquired. Keep them around for the long haul and then the fans will return.
There are baseball fans in SoFla, just look at the WBC. Just an untapped market. I’m glad the organization is doing these heritage nights and getting people excited to go to the games. I’m glad they are trying to bring in the fans again, but please keep the players. Spend the money to attract big names.
After reading all the great comments I had a few more thoughts. Everyone is right on with the area around the ballpark. Miami is an "event town", and the area around the ballpark really hurts an event atmosphere. Nobody says "hey lets show up an hour or two early and have some beers", because there's literally nothing around. The other large issue in my opinion is demographics. Miami is a city of transplants, and baseball fandom is something that a lot of times is built over generations. People root for the teams that their fathers and grandfathers rooted for, and for a team that's only been around for 30 years, we're only one generation deep. It's why you see the stadium fuller when teams like the Mets and Phillies are in town, all these people are locals, but are rooting for the teams they grew up with. The hardest part will be breaking that cycle of fandom.
Two things: winning more and improved public transit.
The winning: everyone is saying that up above me so won’t really say much more other than it seems like Sherman is finally figuring things out
Public transit: I grew up around Aventura and with $10-20 for parking it wasn’t a big deal for me to go to games back in the day. Now that I live in Davie it’s more of a slog for me to go down to the stadium. The Brightline service is fine, but just as expensive to drive since I have to pay for parking at the station. Would love a Homerunner type deal for Tri-rail since I would come out ahead. If I have one piece of advice to give to ownership is to treat the team like a real estate play and try and buy up land around the stadium so there’s more to do down by the park.
The stadium never should have been built where it is and the earlier starting times are making it worse now. If a game starts at 6:30 and you work and live in Broward you get off work at 5 and then race home to grab your family or friends then get on 595 or 95 to head into rush hour traffic at 5:45? You'll never make any batting practice if you're even allowed in for it.
If it rains you are lucky if you make it by the 3rd inning after running in from the parking lot. If it rains and a car accident happens on the way down? Might as well go back home.
The faster pace of the game now makes it so much worse for Broward or Palm Beach fans that unless it is a weekend game? Who is going to risk it?
The stadium and team should be relocated to Sunrise and change the team name to the Fort Lauderdale Marlins. Build it near and off Sawgrass. This way roads like the Turnpike, 595, Sawgrass, 95, Sunrise Blvd, 27 all connect to it. Easier for the tri-county fans to attend. I believe you would see an average of 20k fans a night.
Get off Ballys and create local broadcast and national broadcast rights. Reconnect the team with local television stations airing games on free TV. Reconnect with the community.
Ownership is putting too much emphasis on the Miami culture. It has not worked. People have been burned too many times to come back down to Miami. No trust is there.
Winning and commitment. The market has no trust in the product as any success has been fleeting and roster destruction so jarring that I don’t blame the fans.
Let’s see what happens come September. And if they make playoffs then let’s we what they do in the offseason to tell the market that this wasn’t a fluke and they’re going to go for it.
They need to be seen by the average fan as trying to win, it needs to work, and they need to run it back.
That doesn’t need to mean WS. But that’s a playoff berth, or at least an exciting chase where they get eliminated in Game 162 of a 90 win season. That winning is helped by adding recognizable, worth paying to see talent this summer that helps an attendance uptick to snowball.
The everyday fan has to then believe that the 2024 team is better than the 2023 team.
In Miami there will always be a but, I remember back in 1993 when they said that the stadium was for football and it was very far away. They have had one of the most modern and comfortable stadiums in MLB and in Down Town for a while. They always have an excuse in Miami. I have been clear for a long time, Miami does not deserve an MLB team.
Consistent winning and a commitment to the future imo. Sign guys like Arraez and Jazz to longer term deals like the Braves are doing. Show me that you’re going to have a core that I can commit to for years to come. Also, Miami has always been a front running town. They make the playoffs and you’ll have a hard time finding a seat.
True, the fans will come out of the woodworks once the playoffs begin. But, it is amazing to realize that there has never been a meaningful MLB regular season or playoff game played at Marlins Park. We have only have had International baseball games where the stands are full. It will amazing to hear how cacophonous the sound will be of full house as it rumbles around in that dome.
First off, the stadium is wonderful and is a very fun place to watch a game in. Having said that, there are still several factors that hurt attendance. I always thought an important drawback is the lack of a tri-rail spur to the stadium. I know Briteline takes you from their station by bus but that is quite costly. There is also no atmosphere around the stadium area, no bars, restaurants or other places of interest to visit. And third, and probably most negatively impactful, is our franchises history of perennial haplessness despite two World Series rings. We have stunk most years and fans know and understand that to really compete with the deep pocket teams will take an owner who will really take a chance on high payroll, not unlike San Diego is doing now (with lttle to show for it). The fans are smart and realize that baseball is the only uncapped major sport and that teams with low payroll cannot realistically compete, especially now when the deep pocket teams spend even more extravagantly and still use Moneyball tactics too. So, we may have a shot at the playoffs this year, but that will usually not take a low payroll team much past the first round.
Despite those good reasons, baseball still should draw better here. Even during the years we won it all, crowds were sparse into August (but, in fairness, boh teams were wildcard entrants, not juggernauts).
The only hope for this area attendance wise, is sustained success, not unlike the Dolphins, Heat, and now the Panthers are having. You have to earn this areas respect as there seems to be a higher requirement for winning than other places.
An asterisk worthy playoff appearance in the covid year doesn't prove much, nor does semi-large commitments to Garcia and Soler. I like what Ng is doing after ridding ourselves of the ineffective Jeter. De la Cruz has stepped up, Arraez is a rare Tony Gwinn, Wade Boggs level talent, and now Soler is crushing. The pitching, both starting and relief, is solid. We need a catcher and probaby another infielder. The time is right to upgrade this team at the deadline.
And, if we are a winner for a couple years, and still have attendance woes, then maybe we dont deserve a team.
I second the LD ballpark experience. I have a great time when I drive down from Jacksonville. The place is comfortable and clean with pleasant sight lines and excellent food. I have been a baseball season ticket holder in two cities - if I lived in Miami, I would be again.
This year, I am unable to attend due to medical issues but in the past have been supportive. While popular with some, I found the new stadium too far away for weeknight games and traffic to be horrendous.
I have always managed to find players I really liked but wish the ownerships had come through more often with their promises of better players.
I think what was really difficult for me was watching Jeter and company come in and remove many mainstay personnel, broadcasters and player personnel while remaining distant from fans. Just some random thoughts
It’s about the ownership for me. I can’t support this guy. I had high hopes when the team was sold, but it seems like Sherman can’t get out of his own way. Every thing he touches seems to go wrong. He never should have put Jeter in charge and done the fire sale. Rich Waltz and you should still be on my television and radio. I take my kids to a couple of games a year. The ballpark food is mediocre and way too expensive. There’s no atmosphere because the stadium is empty. It just isn’t fun. When I get home I ask myself why we even bother.
I’ve relocated away from Miami. I’ve lived in Arizona and currently live in DC. I’ve attended many D-Back games and currently go to a lot of Nationals games. I’ve gotten a lot of prospective and developed theories as to why we have problem that we have.
1. Location/What’s Surrounding the Ballpark.
Marlins Park or loanDepot park is for all intense purposes, to be blunt and no matter how uncomfortable it may be to say out loud… in the Cuban “Hood”. There is nothing to do around the ballpark. It’s extremely boring and unappealing. There’s no cool bars to hangout for happy hour/to kill time before the game starts, no place to eat outside of a Wendy’s, and it’s an area that gets congested where taking public transportation would be easier but it lacks that too.
2. It’s too far from Broward and the Palm Beach Counties.
A 6:40 pm start time? Really? Does anyone realistically think someone that gets out of work can get to the park on time? Especially with how the Palmetto and i95 get during rush hour? There’s a huge fan base in those counties. They feel forgotten or isolated because they’re not latin. With how this organization has marketed itself, with the latin bands (latin percussions and trumpets) and how loud the park is, it’s a turn off to those fans. No one else does that. Only we do.
3. The lack of winning.
You know it, I know it, the empty seats know it. We have developed a horrible reputation. Whenever I have mentioned that I’m a Marlins fan, people cringe or laugh, sometimes both. And it’s not for the lack of trying. I know ownership has tried. We’ve have just had a lot of bad luck. From players not performing, to untimely passings, we’ve had bad luck all around. Tell me, what’s so fun to see your team get beat day in and day out? Year after year?
I attended an A’s and Nationals game late in 2022 on a random Tuesday night. That park was PACKED. Nose bleeds were packed. I was shocked. Both teams were dead last in their respective standings and yet it was packed. This blew my mind. Then it dawned on me. It’s the people, the fans, the culture surrounding the ballpark. Miami lacks that. It may be a tough pill to swallow but maybe it’s time to admit that baseball does not work in South Florida.
If Miami wins consistently, active buyers in the offseason (via FA/Trades) and people STILL don’t show up. Then it’s proof that baseball does not work in Miami. As painful as it may be for me to write this. It’s the reality.
Excellent points all around. On the 6:40 start time, now that we see the pitch clock works, it needs to be changed back to a 7:10 start.
I have no problem attending games no matter how bad the team is playing. My Dad doesn’t seem to mind the drive down from Boca to Miami on a Friday or Saturday late afternoon/early evening. The only thing that would get me to go a little more frequently is consistent winning and a closer location. It would be a lot shorter of a drive for a lot of fans if the Marlins were in Palm Beach County or near the Panthers arena.
I live part of the baseball year in Jacksonville and drive down to Miami twice a year for games. I was a baseball season ticket holder in two different cities and would be again with the Marlins if I lived there. For me, it's just distance, so I am not much help with locals' concerns vis-a-vis the location. My experiences with the stadium have all been good. I like the stadium, the food, the comfort level, the sight lines, the concourses, etc. As long as I am healthy, I will continue to have my road trips to Miami.
As an aside, people love to disrespect Montreal. However, knowledgeable people understand the many reasons for the long slide. The Expos outdrew the Yankees during the 1970s. We know the Yanks were not good and played at Shea, etc., but it is also unfair not to consider the attendance facts. There was also a long, successful minor league history there.
One would think that Miami can and will reach a reasonable attendance over time given the community size and the large groups living in the area that are from baseball countries.
•it is a matter of winning more. if the marlins can put a consistent winning team together throughout the season (well into august & september), then fans will go. marlins have a knack of going on slow streaks, and a few good series won’t convince fans.
•absolutely. they should resign there best players and build their farm system. no more fire sales.
•in my opinion, no. i love where the ballpark is located. heart of little havana. traffic is nauseating, however, and the constant construction around the area doesn’t help. there is also ZERO presence of marlins murals, posters, flags, in little havana. it doesn’t feel like a baseball town. think of yawkey way in boston.
•parking is a headache. they never fixed that issue. the food is also not that good. service is even worse, but that’s expected in miami.
•no
•no and no. more events outside the stadium before and after games would be nice
Honestly, it is a few things. The commute being one of them. My hope is that once the Brightline is fully functioning, then I’ll be able to attend more games. If you think about other major market teams (New York, Atlanta, Chicago, etc) you have other ways other than car to make it to the games.
Showing commitment to the future or to players. I know it’s a business, I fully understand that, but how can you get fans excited about a player(s) if there isn’t an anchor. I’ve been a fan since the beginning and going through the fire sales really hurt. As soon as you get attached to a player, they were gone. I mean look at ‘98 and ‘04, almost completely different teams when compared to the championship teams. You can also see what happened when the new ownership wanted to start fresh with trading Stanton, Yelich, etc. My hope is now they are committed to Sandy, Jazz and everyone else they just acquired. Keep them around for the long haul and then the fans will return.
There are baseball fans in SoFla, just look at the WBC. Just an untapped market. I’m glad the organization is doing these heritage nights and getting people excited to go to the games. I’m glad they are trying to bring in the fans again, but please keep the players. Spend the money to attract big names.
After reading all the great comments I had a few more thoughts. Everyone is right on with the area around the ballpark. Miami is an "event town", and the area around the ballpark really hurts an event atmosphere. Nobody says "hey lets show up an hour or two early and have some beers", because there's literally nothing around. The other large issue in my opinion is demographics. Miami is a city of transplants, and baseball fandom is something that a lot of times is built over generations. People root for the teams that their fathers and grandfathers rooted for, and for a team that's only been around for 30 years, we're only one generation deep. It's why you see the stadium fuller when teams like the Mets and Phillies are in town, all these people are locals, but are rooting for the teams they grew up with. The hardest part will be breaking that cycle of fandom.
Two things: winning more and improved public transit.
The winning: everyone is saying that up above me so won’t really say much more other than it seems like Sherman is finally figuring things out
Public transit: I grew up around Aventura and with $10-20 for parking it wasn’t a big deal for me to go to games back in the day. Now that I live in Davie it’s more of a slog for me to go down to the stadium. The Brightline service is fine, but just as expensive to drive since I have to pay for parking at the station. Would love a Homerunner type deal for Tri-rail since I would come out ahead. If I have one piece of advice to give to ownership is to treat the team like a real estate play and try and buy up land around the stadium so there’s more to do down by the park.
The stadium never should have been built where it is and the earlier starting times are making it worse now. If a game starts at 6:30 and you work and live in Broward you get off work at 5 and then race home to grab your family or friends then get on 595 or 95 to head into rush hour traffic at 5:45? You'll never make any batting practice if you're even allowed in for it.
If it rains you are lucky if you make it by the 3rd inning after running in from the parking lot. If it rains and a car accident happens on the way down? Might as well go back home.
The faster pace of the game now makes it so much worse for Broward or Palm Beach fans that unless it is a weekend game? Who is going to risk it?
The stadium and team should be relocated to Sunrise and change the team name to the Fort Lauderdale Marlins. Build it near and off Sawgrass. This way roads like the Turnpike, 595, Sawgrass, 95, Sunrise Blvd, 27 all connect to it. Easier for the tri-county fans to attend. I believe you would see an average of 20k fans a night.
Get off Ballys and create local broadcast and national broadcast rights. Reconnect the team with local television stations airing games on free TV. Reconnect with the community.
Ownership is putting too much emphasis on the Miami culture. It has not worked. People have been burned too many times to come back down to Miami. No trust is there.
Winning and commitment. The market has no trust in the product as any success has been fleeting and roster destruction so jarring that I don’t blame the fans.
Let’s see what happens come September. And if they make playoffs then let’s we what they do in the offseason to tell the market that this wasn’t a fluke and they’re going to go for it.
Winning the Trade Deadline I think would help a lot.
They need to be seen by the average fan as trying to win, it needs to work, and they need to run it back.
That doesn’t need to mean WS. But that’s a playoff berth, or at least an exciting chase where they get eliminated in Game 162 of a 90 win season. That winning is helped by adding recognizable, worth paying to see talent this summer that helps an attendance uptick to snowball.
The everyday fan has to then believe that the 2024 team is better than the 2023 team.