Listen now | In this 4th of July Weekend edition, a couple of historic holiday weekend marathons, some of Baseball’s finest families and what may have been the greatest pitchers duel in Major League history. Subscribe or follow Crooked Numbers for free today wherever you get your podcasts.
I've told this story before. When Jose Fernandez first came up, remember he was was pitching brilliantly, but they were being really careful with him in limiting his innings. And it drove him CRAZY.
Don Sutton was doing TV for the Braves at the time and asked me one night if I'd introduce him to Jose during BP the next afternoon. I wanted Jose to understand who he was meeting, so I printed Sut's career stats out and took them down to the clubhouse after the game that night. I explained to Jose that Sut was a Hall of Fame pitcher, and he really wanted to meet him. Then I handed him the stat sheet, and Jose's jaw almost hit the floor.
Sut spent one season in the minors, at age 20, and worked 249 innings. In his first year in the majors, at age 21, Sut made 35 starts and worked 225 2/3 innings. He worked more than 200 innings in each of his first 20 non-strike seasons. He pitched nearly 200 career complete games. He debuted in 1966 and retired in 1988, working more than 5,000 lifetime innings. And he never went on the DL once until '88, as a 43-year-old in his 23rd and final season, due to a back problem. The man never had an arm injury that put him on the DL. Not once in 23 years.
I just looked up your guy Steve Rogers. In his 10 full non-strike seasons (not counting his debut season or his final season), he averaged 35 starts, 251 innings and 11 complete games. I don't know for sure that he never went on the DL, but I don't think he could have missed too much time to average 35 starts over a decade. Only 5 pitchers who've appeared in 2024 have 11 complete games in their entire careers (and 3 of the 5 have 11 or 12). And Rogers averaged 11 per season for a decade.
Don Sutton was amazing. My memories start with the great Dodger teams, then the perms, the Brewers, and finally, broadcasting. The Dodgers and their pitchers who seemed to be there forever. Rogers came up in 1973, when I was fourteen, and adopted him immediately as my favorite, modeling my grimaces, shrugs, and exaggerated exhales on the mound after him! It's wonderful to watch the old Expos games on YouTube, where the differences in starting pitching are easily manifested. As you noted with Sutton, these guys were bulldogs with huge inning numbers. Rogers' 1974 22-game-loss season taught me about teamwork. He was incredible in the 1981 playoff series versus the Phillies, where he beat Carlton twice, even though the "Blue Monday" loss to LA is what most people remember. He's worked for the MLBPA for a long while, still in great shape, and often appears at Expos-related functions.
I met Rogers a couple of times when he would come by to say hello to DVH in various ballparks because of his work with the MLBPA. His daughter interned with the Marlins at one point. This was a while ago, so it may have changed, but I believe she was working full-time for a club. Maybe the Mets, but I’m not sure.
I didn't know about his daughter- cool. Never met him. I was about six people away from his table on the field at Olympic Stadium when time ran out. Ugh! About twenty years ago, a client saw the Expos items on my office wall and mentioned he went to school with a former Expos player...in Tulsa. No way. This guy says Steve Rogers and was a little taken aback that a forty-five-year old man reacted so strongly! Lol. Hope you had a pleasant Independence Weekend. Cheers.
Those were fun stories. The Rick Camp game story started us down the path of swapping 1980's SuperStation TBS/Braves anecdotes. Did you hear the one regarding Braves announcer (and former Reds shortstop, as I recall him) Darrell Cheney? He opened a random weekday broadcast by saying, "50,000 fans here tonight, 45,000 of them disguised as empty seats." Or something very close to that! Ted Turner fired him the next day, the story goes. Like many of us, I watched many TBS and WGN games!
I remember Chaney as a player, but not as a broadcaster. Skip Caray got away with saying a lot of similar things during some lean years for the Braves. Skip was one of a kind.
Thanks so much, Les. I really appreciate it. If you go to Spotify, Apple or anywhere else you listen to podcasts, all the previous episodes are available. While they’re “timely,” inspired by things happening in Baseball this week, the stories themselves are timeless. So any time you want to catch up on prior episodes, they all still make sense. Appreciate your listening.
My favorite stat of my all-time favorite player, Steve Rogers, is his CG number: 129 (out of 310 career decisions/393 career starts)!
Times have changed a little bit, huh?
I've told this story before. When Jose Fernandez first came up, remember he was was pitching brilliantly, but they were being really careful with him in limiting his innings. And it drove him CRAZY.
Don Sutton was doing TV for the Braves at the time and asked me one night if I'd introduce him to Jose during BP the next afternoon. I wanted Jose to understand who he was meeting, so I printed Sut's career stats out and took them down to the clubhouse after the game that night. I explained to Jose that Sut was a Hall of Fame pitcher, and he really wanted to meet him. Then I handed him the stat sheet, and Jose's jaw almost hit the floor.
Sut spent one season in the minors, at age 20, and worked 249 innings. In his first year in the majors, at age 21, Sut made 35 starts and worked 225 2/3 innings. He worked more than 200 innings in each of his first 20 non-strike seasons. He pitched nearly 200 career complete games. He debuted in 1966 and retired in 1988, working more than 5,000 lifetime innings. And he never went on the DL once until '88, as a 43-year-old in his 23rd and final season, due to a back problem. The man never had an arm injury that put him on the DL. Not once in 23 years.
I just looked up your guy Steve Rogers. In his 10 full non-strike seasons (not counting his debut season or his final season), he averaged 35 starts, 251 innings and 11 complete games. I don't know for sure that he never went on the DL, but I don't think he could have missed too much time to average 35 starts over a decade. Only 5 pitchers who've appeared in 2024 have 11 complete games in their entire careers (and 3 of the 5 have 11 or 12). And Rogers averaged 11 per season for a decade.
And like Sut, he stayed healthy.
Don Sutton was amazing. My memories start with the great Dodger teams, then the perms, the Brewers, and finally, broadcasting. The Dodgers and their pitchers who seemed to be there forever. Rogers came up in 1973, when I was fourteen, and adopted him immediately as my favorite, modeling my grimaces, shrugs, and exaggerated exhales on the mound after him! It's wonderful to watch the old Expos games on YouTube, where the differences in starting pitching are easily manifested. As you noted with Sutton, these guys were bulldogs with huge inning numbers. Rogers' 1974 22-game-loss season taught me about teamwork. He was incredible in the 1981 playoff series versus the Phillies, where he beat Carlton twice, even though the "Blue Monday" loss to LA is what most people remember. He's worked for the MLBPA for a long while, still in great shape, and often appears at Expos-related functions.
Turns out the Jose-Sutton meeting was 11 years ago today. A picture I took of the 2 of them talking appeared on my Timehop this morning.
There are no coincidences, they say! Have a pleasant week. As for me, I'm heading up to Cincinnati to catch two of the weekend Marlins-Reds games.
Getting to see Elly De La Cruz will make up for having to watch the unwatchable Marlins. Enjoy!
I met Rogers a couple of times when he would come by to say hello to DVH in various ballparks because of his work with the MLBPA. His daughter interned with the Marlins at one point. This was a while ago, so it may have changed, but I believe she was working full-time for a club. Maybe the Mets, but I’m not sure.
I didn't know about his daughter- cool. Never met him. I was about six people away from his table on the field at Olympic Stadium when time ran out. Ugh! About twenty years ago, a client saw the Expos items on my office wall and mentioned he went to school with a former Expos player...in Tulsa. No way. This guy says Steve Rogers and was a little taken aback that a forty-five-year old man reacted so strongly! Lol. Hope you had a pleasant Independence Weekend. Cheers.
Those were fun stories. The Rick Camp game story started us down the path of swapping 1980's SuperStation TBS/Braves anecdotes. Did you hear the one regarding Braves announcer (and former Reds shortstop, as I recall him) Darrell Cheney? He opened a random weekday broadcast by saying, "50,000 fans here tonight, 45,000 of them disguised as empty seats." Or something very close to that! Ted Turner fired him the next day, the story goes. Like many of us, I watched many TBS and WGN games!
I remember Chaney as a player, but not as a broadcaster. Skip Caray got away with saying a lot of similar things during some lean years for the Braves. Skip was one of a kind.
Indeed, he was. Enjoyed hearing that reliable, knowledgeable, droll-humored fellow and his compatriots on TBS.
This was my first listen to "Crooked Numbers", Geff, and
I loved it! I didn't want
the episode to end.
I anxiously await the next one.
Les Howard Jacoby
Gainesville, FL
Thanks so much, Les. I really appreciate it. If you go to Spotify, Apple or anywhere else you listen to podcasts, all the previous episodes are available. While they’re “timely,” inspired by things happening in Baseball this week, the stories themselves are timeless. So any time you want to catch up on prior episodes, they all still make sense. Appreciate your listening.